Subs and a Tsunami
Since 01-09-05
From: Webeabout@aol.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Subs and a Tsunami
Dave King/ Bill Decker
A surface wave rolls around in a 'circle'...it's that simple...
If the surface wave height is 20' - 30' - 40'...or even 60' - 80'...as in the
movie, The Perfect Storm", for example...
...then the effect is ONLY felt 20' - 30' - 40'...or 60'...or 80' UNDER the
surface...
A submarine at periscope depth would 'experience' some rolling with 20' surface
waves...but more likely than not probably couldn't see a damn thing except
mostly Green Water....
A submarine at 100' might maybe 'feel' just a little something from 60'
waves...but NOTHING WHATSOEVER from just 20' - 30' waves...
And at 500'...NOTHING BUT DEAD, DARK AND QUIET !!
And while Earl Fleck's 'explanation' has it pretty much right on !!...
...to "Kenny" I say, "Shoot the canary !, Shoot the canary !!...BEFORE IT
CRAPS...and we take an out of control down bubble...and we ALL die !!"
Bob "Boots" Bowers, The Boy-Commander
It is my understanding that the force of a tsunami is greatest as it comes into shallow water. Now I can see a submarine being greatly affected if operating in shallow water but in the open ocean , I wouldn't think so. I have been on boats down five hundred feet up north in a storm and it was so rough I thought we had surfaced. I just can't see a tsunami doing that in the open ocean, but I am sure there are greater minds than mine on this subject.
From: DKing19Sr@aol.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Subs and a Tsunami
If you have a two hundred pound canary on your mine table, not to worry about it
flying , worry about it taking a crap. It would appear that the added fluid
weight would put a tremendous strain on correct balance.
Dave King
From: Biff Baker
To: Bill Decker
Cc: kshaum@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Tsunami
Bill & Ken,
Guy's, I would not want to be with-in 500 miles of an
earthquake at sea weather submerged or surfaced.Never do you want to be caught
in port with one coming in or even a Typhoon either. I remember the "Blooper"
that slipped up on us one night in the china sea,and they can be just as
dangerous as small tsunami.It drove our ass down the road a piece and shook us
like a stick.
Kenny,if you have a 500 pound parrot setting on a table and he wants to fly
ANYWHERE, you had best let the Bastard fly and figure an answer to save your
ass.Ha Ha.
The falling elevater did not care if you had an up or down angle either because
your ass hit the deck at the same speed. Ya'll take care now, ya heah.
Yo Shipmate
"Biff"
From: BFLOBRTH@cs.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Subs and a Tsunami
Mr. King is absolutely correct on that score...the shallow water is what gives
the Tsunami its devastating power. The actual open ocean wave is not
significantly deadly until the force of the tidal wave has the ocean floor to
react to.
When submerged, a sub is pretty much in safe territory...its only when ships are
on the surface of the ocean that they are subjected to the damaging wave action,
where they are forced into the trough of the sea state, and are either riding
high, or being inundated by the tons of water at the bottom of the trough...
Hell, heaven knows I too am no expert at this, but from my studies at the David
Taylor Boat Basic, during ship design studies, I was able to learn a bit about
sea state effects on ships...applies to subs as well.
There are certainly better qualified minds out there, who could give us a
better, more technical, and understandable explanation in layman's language that
we could all understand. Perhaps we will find that someone?
P. J. Apodaca
From: "kenneth shaum" <kshaum@yahoo.com>
To: "Bill Decker" <bdecker@shentel.net>;
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Subs and a Tsunami
Dear Bill:
Could not explain it better than Mr. Fleck. I think I would have been happier
directly over the earthquake that caused the tsunami than be tied up at the
dock. To my knowledge there was no loss of shipping. At sea it is no more than a
swell easily rode out.
Yeah, I was at sea. Yes!!
Kenny
P.S. If you are at 200 feet and have a 500 pound canary perched on the mine
table in the torpedo room and he (or she) decides to fly. Do you take an up
angle? I would be interested in the responses to this. There is an answer.
From: Webeabout@aol.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Subs and a Tsunami
Candie/ Bob Baker/ Bill Decker...
Hardly, in the least...if the submarine is out in 'deeper' water...and not tied
to a shoreside pier...
Truth of the matter is...on the surface a submarine would never even notice the
few centimeter...or a few inch rise in the surface level...as a "Tsunami" wave(s)
passed under...
No more than you 'feel' the wind blowing as the earth spins at near 1,000
knots...
And, likewise, submerged...NO 'wild ride'...NOTHING !!...Not even a 'shutter'...
It's not until a tsunami wave reaches shallow/ shoal water...that at those
speeds...700 - 800 - 900 kilometres/ hour...400 - 500 knots...that the energy
has to go 'somewhere'...so when it comes to a near schreeching halt on a
beach...it builds straight up 20 - 30 - 40 metres...
...and contines to move inland...or over islands in this case...for miles
even...until the energy is totally dissipated...
...and THAT'S ALL !!...out at sea...on a submarine, sailboat...or even a
surfboard... Nada,,, Nothing... Zilch...is ever even felt...
Bob "Boots" Bowers, The Boy Commander
From: Earl Fleck
To: Bill Decker
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Subs and a Tsunami
Hi Bill,
I find this discussion about the affect of a tsunami on a sub a bit confusing
owing to uncertainty as to the sub’s location when the wave hit.
First, if a sub were in port or entering port and, thus, in shallow water the
vertical movement of water and the proximity of the bottom may cause very
serious damage to the sub. In this case the boat could ground when the water
recedes or be displaces inland and rolled around. The change in the wavelength
of the tsunami to a much shorter and very much higher wave form would affect a
sub in inshore waters very much.
However, if the sub is far out at see the boat is a very tiny fraction of the
wavelength of the pressure wave and would, likely, not experience much if any
vertical or horizontal displacement. From what I have heard about surface ships
far at sea when a tsunami passes is that they hardly notice, if they notice at
all, the passage of the long wavelength wave. Thus, the answer to the question
about how subs respond to tsunami’s depends on whether the sub is in shallow
water or deep water.
Regards,
Earl Fleck EM2 (SS) (Raton ‘66-’68)
----- Original Message -----
From: Clara Baker <mailto:claraandbobbaker@yahoo.com>
To: Bill Decker <mailto:bdecker@shentel.net>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:25 PM
Subject: Subs and a Tsunami
I had the same question asked me the other day, How would a submarine hold up in
a Tsunami? I couldn`t give an answer. All I could say was that it would
more than likely be one wild ride, With the force and the speed of the wave.
I assume that there were Boats operating in the area at the time, So maybe some
day we will hear how it was.
Bob Baker
Roy Christensen TM3
I'm sure there is noting like having a new mountain peak that has almost reached the surface and we know nothing about that situation. That will be a danger to the Submarines.
One report by divers that were under water when the tsunami hit threw them around a bit but they were able to handle the situation under water better than if you were on land. The boats did not have that much trouble if they were out to sea.
Hi Shipmates,
For several days I have been in a quandary about how submarines, even Nukes would fare in a tsunami. I haven’t heard of any subs been damaged or destroyed as a result of the tragic tsunami that hit Thailand, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and other countries. Can any of you shed some light on this subject for me? I heard on TV that the tsunami traveled in excess of 300 miles per hour and was about 30 feet high. Such a terrific force would surely damage or destroy a submarine. We most assuredly had some of our subs in that area and I’m quite certain other countries also had ongoing operations in the area utilizing their submarines. I have not heard any reports so far. What say you?
Candie